r/gaming Dec 07 '21 Silver 11 Gold 1 Helpful 16 Wholesome 8 Wearing is Caring 1

Trends of incomplete games can be traced to one horse DLC that we let slide…

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60.4k Upvotes

4.1k

u/Zarzeta Dec 07 '21

But first you have to buy the horse before Orc turns it into a snack.

765

u/VerrucktMed Dec 07 '21

What? No! Eating horses is wrong.

541

u/Vivid_Percentage6855 Dec 08 '21

Horse taste good don’t listen to all the neighhsayers

56

u/BruceInc Dec 08 '21

Whoa whoa whoa

47

u/Vivid_Percentage6855 Dec 08 '21

What’s the issue? Should I hold my horses?

34

u/draconine Dec 08 '21

Hay, now.

24

u/8bitbruh Dec 08 '21

I just get such a long face thinkng of all those poor horses :(

23

u/BruceInc Dec 08 '21

Sarah Jessica Parker, is that you?!

26

u/Rymanbc Dec 08 '21 Bravo!

Why would you ask such equestrian?

21

u/BruceInc Dec 08 '21

Just jockeying around

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u/deathnote897 Dec 07 '21

Oh eating.i thought he ment the other type of snack. Lol

287

u/VitalizedOfThe12 Dec 07 '21

Raping horses is wrong.

14

u/klrcow Dec 08 '21

Loki enters the chat

250

u/buttpugggs PlayStation Dec 07 '21

The horse was asking for it by wearing such short armour!

87

u/FrozeItOff Dec 07 '21

Stop horsing around...

50

u/IPintheSink Dec 07 '21

I'm not horsing around. I'm hoofing glue...

35

u/fkndiespaceship Dec 08 '21

Wat r u doing step horse???

32

u/FauxReal Dec 08 '21

*steppe horse

17

u/deadbeef4 Dec 08 '21

Genghis Khan likes this.

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u/JohnDax Dec 07 '21

Oh, Mr. Hands!

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u/tallbutshy Dec 08 '21

🎶Back in the nineties…

6

u/Darthaerith Dec 08 '21

I was in a very famous tvvvv shoow.

7

u/Zealousideal_Two8571 Dec 08 '21

Bojack horseman, don't act like youuu don't know.

6

u/Frase_doggy Dec 08 '21

What is this? A crossover DLC?

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u/Dinotube47 Dec 07 '21

You think you can just show them ankles and hoofs and expect me to think you’re not asking for it??

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u/PathlessBullet Dec 07 '21

Not really. I mean you probably think they're cute and thus not ethical to eat, but so are cuddly cows and pigs.

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u/Ottoclav Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

Eating horse isn’t wrong. Just culturally stigmatized. Plenty of people in the past and maybe even some in the present in certain countries have eaten horse. Edit: Has anybody tried Dog or Cat?! I may have, but teriyaki sauce is delicious on anything…

25

u/Biduleman Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

I mean, I'm in Canada and can go to my big chain grocery store to buy ground horse [meat]. It's not some rare delicacy, it's not even expensive.

18

u/BCProgramming Dec 08 '21

I'm in Canada and can go to my big chain grocery store to buy ground horse.

What other kind of horse is there though? I mean, pegasus are a myth... right?

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u/Ottoclav Dec 08 '21

I wish the States had a bigger selection of meats. Can’t even buy minced lamb in a normal grocery store here in New York.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

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u/MrGlayden PC Dec 07 '21

Yeah they just didnt know it, then it came out that tesco beef burgers were made from horse and other unidentifiable meats

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u/schnoopledeeschnoop Dec 07 '21

I love italian food

15

u/gophermuncher Dec 07 '21

Lol! I had forgotten about that little slice of history

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u/Zama174 Dec 07 '21

France loves to eat horse. A significant export of the us meat market is horses to france for slaughter.

24

u/LiteratureOk1832 Dec 08 '21

Well you try paying to keep a dang horse alive. You’d be eating it soon enough too lol

11

u/noodlyarms Dec 07 '21

Japan too. You can get horse sashimi there.

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u/GreenSpleen6 Dec 07 '21

I had a horse steak in Switzerland, it was better than any beef steak I've ever had.

31

u/fail-deadly- Dec 07 '21

Have you had bison? That is one tasty animal.

9

u/GreenSpleen6 Dec 07 '21

Haven't had the pleasure.

21

u/Synergy_synner PC Dec 07 '21

Bison burgers are amazing.

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u/AlistarDark Dec 08 '21

Once you have Yak, you won't go back... To bison.

Also Minke Whale is super good.

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u/FrankyBonDanky Dec 08 '21

Yes, turning them into glue is much better

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u/texasrigger Dec 08 '21

They're used for both. Glue comes from the hides, hooves, and bone - the waste products of slaughter.

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u/DumbassW3valveTriton Dec 08 '21

$20 for one halo RESKIN (just a color change of the free one) and a helmet that changes the visor.

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u/A_MAN_POTATO PC Dec 07 '21

I remember when this came out and people were outraged that a cosmetic item would cost $5.

Now thats probably cheap for your average mtx.

1.0k

u/Convicted_Vapist420 Dec 07 '21

Blueprints in rocket league literally cost more than the game.

191

u/UtterlyOverjoyed Dec 08 '21

Remember when cars used to cost about 2$? Wish it was still like that

138

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21 edited 5d ago

[deleted]

122

u/MockStarket Dec 08 '21

Nice try Bakkes Mod sales rep.

83

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

I'm calling you today about the coverage of your extended Bakkes Mod.

41

u/LordRobin------RM Dec 08 '21

Except isn’t “look at me, look at my cool-ass skin” kinda the whole point of skins?

85

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21 edited 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/joeyicecream Dec 08 '21

If the poors can’t feel me flexin is there even a point anymore?

11

u/BlessedNobody Dec 08 '21

You are flexing on yourself, so the poors will still see it.

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u/MoonDust1969 Dec 08 '21

You're right, that is the point. However if you think about it no one really gives a shit about what skin the others are using.

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u/Petal-Dance Dec 08 '21

..... I cant see the other players reacting, why would I care how they feel about it?

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u/upvotesthenrages Dec 08 '21

Because you paid $2, they increased to $5, then $10, now $20.

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u/Slingaa Dec 08 '21

Well it is free sooo….. hahah it went free this summer FYI

(and I agree with your point, $20 for a car? Lol no.)

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u/bugamn Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

Hasn't Rocket League been free for a few years now? I'm pretty sure I played it for free last year

EDIT: I checked it out and according to this website it became free to play on September 23 2020

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u/TheMinions Dec 08 '21

It was free on PS+ several years back. I think it cost money for other platforms like Switch though.

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u/Whatifim80lol Dec 08 '21

I paid like ~$8 to play with a Ryu skin in Brawlhalla for a character I don't even normally use. The disease is real.

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u/Eoganachta Dec 08 '21 Helpful

A few cosmetics in Halo Infinite will easily set you back 15 pounds. I don't know what that is in freedom money.

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u/chrisp5000 Dec 08 '21

I will lose 15 pounds if I buy some Halo Infinite skins, sick.

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u/Ghost-Of-Nappa Xbox Dec 08 '21

$5 then would be $6.86 today

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u/i8noodles Dec 08 '21

I remember that as well. Huge outrage. Now it's like. It's only 5$ when some cosmetics in league cost 20$

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u/Laigos Dec 07 '21

I remember the day one DLC in ME3.

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u/stikves Dec 07 '21

That was a different issue.

EA wanted to cash in on used games resold freely. So they locked some of the content in a $10 DLC. I think it actually started with Mass Effect 2 with Zaeed and stuff.

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u/flapjack3285 Dec 07 '21

There were two different things in 2&3. The first was in ME2 and it was called Cerberus Network which locked Zaeed, the crash site, and the firewalker pack. A free code came in each new copy but if you purchased a used copy, you could buy a new code for $10.

In ME3, they included day 1 DLC for a squad member, Javik, and a couple other missions. It was included in the Deluxe/Collectors Editions but cost $10 even if you purchased a new copy of the standard game.

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u/Austin304 PC Dec 08 '21

In battlefield 3 and Bad company 2, you had to use a free code included in the box that would give you access to multiplayer, otherwise it was locked. If you bought a used copy of the game, you had to pay $10 to unlock the multiplayer. Glad that got removed

28

u/El-Drunko Dec 08 '21

Skate 3 as well.

10

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

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u/stikves Dec 07 '21

Ah... I got the collectors edition for ME3... I can see them being a bit different, you are right.

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u/not_old_redditor Dec 08 '21

I remember javik. Such a big part of the game, it was so obvious he was cut out and sold as day 1 dlc.

40

u/Not_My_Alternate Dec 08 '21

Literally the DLC was downloadable code that just enabled the content that was already on the base game.

13

u/PM_Me_Frosted_Tits Dec 08 '21

Kind of like the first two Destiny DLC's that were not only on the disc, but if you got out of the map you could go into those areas because they were already fully installed and locked behind a paywall.

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u/RivenBloodmarsh Dec 08 '21

Yeah, like real fans aren’t going to want the Prothean companion. EA knew exactly what they were doing. Shady bastards.

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u/Sycclone Dec 07 '21

The 1st was the Golem companion in Dragon Age i think.

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u/thoroq Dec 08 '21

But that at least had a whole quest line to go with it. Not to mention new fully acted voice lines and conversations. I think it's hard to compare that to the horse armor

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u/whitey-ofwgkta Dec 07 '21

about 3 month difference but I think your right

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u/DdPillar Dec 07 '21

All BioWare games of that era had those. DAO even had two!

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u/UbiJinx Dec 07 '21

You're right that that's something EA did, but that was called "Project 10 Dollar". When people talk about Day 1 DLC, they're usually talking about something else.

Common practice back in the day was to fire extra people near the end of a project. Bioware didn't want to do that (especially since you'd just need to rehire them for the sequel) so they transitioned them all to work on fast DLC instead. Then players got all up in arms about "why didn't they just put that content into the main game?" and ignored the fact that the actual alternative was those people all being fired because there was no budget left on the main game.

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u/hamster4sale Dec 07 '21

Another alternative would have been to not have that shitty practice of firing everyone.

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u/StandardSudden1283 Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

Then your shareholders start wondering why the profits aren't maximized. Then they vote in a new board of directors, or under threat of such, the board replaces the CEO, or, under the threat of that, the CEO fires the executives... so on and so forth.

The real problem is greed - profit over literally everything. Our system is set up so that it rewards greed.

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u/GODDAMNFOOL Dec 08 '21

There's a reason Gaben said Valve would go public "over [his] dead body"

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u/SeTiDaYeTi Dec 08 '21

All hail Gaben.

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u/beaverhunter2 Dec 07 '21

Not just rewards it...it requires it

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u/-retaliation- Dec 08 '21

Yep "breach of fiduciary responsibility"

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u/Abigail4Life Dec 07 '21

But those shareholders were very happy with their short term gains and that's all that matters for any large corporation.

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u/A_Soporific Dec 07 '21

Most places aren't big enough to have a new project starting as the previous one ended, and carrying people with nothing to do on payroll generally means that everyone is fired anyways because the company folds. Bioware was using the DLC as "makework" to keep the ones they want on payroll to bridge the few months to a year that it takes to do preproduction on the next project of the same type.

It's also often not randomly firing people, but having employment agreements that they're hired specifically to do thing X and when thing X is done the job is done and they can move on to a new project at any company in the industry.

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u/Stibley_Kleeblunch Dec 07 '21

Big-box game development has been a shit industry for a long time now, capitalizing on the developers' love of games to make them work tons of unpaid overtime during crunch, neglecting to provide any sense of security whatsoever, and (just a guess here, can't say for sure) likely paying far less than any other sort of software development.

Everyone in my program in college wanted to be a game dev. I wonder how many actually pursued that and haven't burned out yet.

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u/lexilogo Dec 07 '21

The issue is, ME3's day 1 DLC doesn't really check out as "fast DLC" (more like a major plot point that was deliberately cut out of the main campaign) and there's nothing stopping those people from being put to work on other more longterm DLC, or the next game.

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u/possyishero Dec 07 '21

Part of the frustration was that it wasn't so cleanly done. Leaked spoilers from 3 months before the game came out stated that the related content was apart of the main game and part of the main mission too as it introduced an important character.

So then the game comes out with the same mission and character mentioned exist but their relevance is significantly lessened to just introduce a new squamate.

So we were basically working with the idea that they took out content meant for the main game just to sell it to us later, and a lesser one at that. Combine that with the "one time log in online or pay" fee (along with the ending and the dream stuff) and you lose people's ability to empathize.

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u/UbiJinx Dec 07 '21

Yeah, if you're talking specifically about ME3 there were some choices that sound questionable there. I'm just presenting what goes on in the actual meetings, and it's not "let's screw the players for the most money". It's always "holy fuck how are we going to finish this and make this work and not have the studio die".

On their side it would not have been thinking about leaks and more about how they could make DLC most efficiently and optimizing the resources they had.

No one would ever say "let's take this out of the game so we can sell it for more money later", it would always be "we have to cut 3 months of programming and 2 months of art content from the game. This quest line about covers it and the writers would only have to do a week of rewrite." then 3 months later "remember that thing we cut from the game but you loved the concept? Why don't we bring back a slimmed down version as DLC?"

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u/dafunkmunk Dec 08 '21

I remember when developers were trying all sorts of dumb shit to battle preowned sales. I think the worst was when new games came with a code that allowed for online play and if you bought it preowned, you’d have to buy a code separately. I bought Little Big Planet racing YEARS AND YEARS after it was released long after I had forgotten about this stupid model. Returned it almost immediately because I needed to pay $15 just to be able to have access to player created levels online.

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u/trainercatlady Dec 07 '21

Catwoman missions.

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u/sonic10158 Dec 08 '21

Sonic 06 Very Hard Mode

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u/marniconuke Dec 07 '21

I also remember me3 having exclusivity dlcs depending on where you buy it.

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u/xrufus7x Dec 08 '21

Armor and weapons. They were all integrated into the game later.

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u/BraveLittleToaster77 Dec 07 '21

Jtag and RGH were great friends to have back then...

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u/ZethGonk Switch Dec 07 '21

And now. The past month I played all Halos on Xbox/Xbox 360 for the first time thanks to rgh

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u/darktex Dec 07 '21

Day 1 DLC that held back a important character.

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u/Field_Marshall17 Dec 07 '21

What dlc? What character?

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u/darktex Dec 07 '21

The DLC was call From Ashes if I remember correctly, and the character was a Prothean.

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u/Field_Marshall17 Dec 07 '21

Oh the Javiks DLC

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u/sonic10158 Dec 08 '21

Primitives

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u/Terakahn Dec 08 '21

Dude it blows my mind that people played that game without that character. It made it so much better. There were so many cool interactions that never would've occurred. And the gear too.

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u/82ndGameHead Console Dec 07 '21

No, trends of Cosmetic Microtranactions all trace back to this horse.

For better or worse.

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u/deathnote897 Dec 07 '21

Fear the horse

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u/Sthlm97 Dec 07 '21

Our horse are yet to be purchased.

Fear the old horse

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u/ChosenSonOfMortarion Dec 07 '21

Ah horse, or some say horsem... Do you hear our prayers?

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u/D_44 Dec 08 '21

As you once did for the vacuous Mule, grant us armor, grant us armor! Plant microtransactios on our games, to cleanse our beastly poverty!

r/unexpectedbloodborne

Edit: wait that's an actual sub!?

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u/oatmeal_dude Dec 07 '21

It was offensive how many expansions for The Sims came out which were basically just cosmetics. Now a funny hat in halo costs 10 bucks.

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u/TehPharaoh Dec 08 '21

I was mad at first because I thought you meant the expansions like Vacation or Hot Date, which usually added a whole new play area or mechanic...l then I remembered Livin' Large which I think was just a shit ton of reskined furniture lol

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u/PrototypeMale Dec 08 '21

I heard the halo subreddit is throwing a fit. Personally, I don't know much of what's going on over there. If the microtransactions are all cosmetic, I don't really give a shit. Especially from a free game.

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u/HonorInDefeat Dec 08 '21

I feel like the Sims is the one game that can like kind of justify it lol. Cuz it's like a dollhouse right? Like kids who play with dolls will buy clothes and toy cars for their dolls right?

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u/Clovis42 Dec 08 '21

It is pretty clear what you are getting at a set price. Never a price I'd pay, but company's charge what people are willing to pay.

The real problem is the gambling mechanics in other games. Keep buying boxes to get the thing you want.

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u/Gonzobot Dec 08 '21

That's supposed to be the justification...you buy the bits you want, you don't have to buy all the things. But that being said...they're working on pack 8+ there's nearly fifty different packs for Sims4, and Sims3 is still four hundred fucking dollars to buy it all.

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u/DiabolicSpartan Dec 07 '21

EA It's in the Game DLC

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u/thefightingmongoose Dec 07 '21

Cosmetic microtransactions in Free to Play games = Good. I like hats and I like free stuff.

Cosmetic microtransactions in full price games = Bad. I bought this already, don't tell me it's costs 4.99 for shit that would definitely have been included in the game before the dreaded horse armor.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

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u/Unown_Soldier Dec 07 '21

Idk about that first statement man, just take a look at the Halo subreddit...

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u/grstacos Dec 07 '21

That's a different issue. $60 campaign plus an empty battle pass with bad progression. And the devs removed things from the battle pass to sell them for $10. Microtransactions on free to play games are fine, but are easily abused.

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u/IRegretSayingThis Dec 08 '21

So you're saying you don't want pineapples for $20?

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u/ConsiderationTop5845 Dec 08 '21

, don't tell me it's costs 4.99 for shit that would definitely have been included in the game before the dreaded horse armor.

nah, it'd just be content you'd never get that ends up on The Cutting Room Floor.

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u/belltype Dec 07 '21

Honestly? After playing a few seasons pf Overwatch, I just stopped caring about cosmetics. I just threw my loot boxes in a pile over 100, R6Siege is over 100 in lootbox packs, and every game after either had really shitty clown suits or were so lore friendly that it was better off just sticking to free/story locked skins. Like who cares if I get a slick Miles Morales skin for $19.99? I'll 100% the game and never pick it up again for like a decade when they remaster it with either all DLC included, or I just don't care.

I think I'm just cynical, and multiplayers are whatever because half the game is social factors.

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u/extralyfe Dec 07 '21

I disagree, it quickly showed devs and publishers that gamers are willing to pony up cash for bits of content that would've normally been included in the base game.

then, they found out that gamers will buy unfinished garbage and defend it on social media while thanking devs for finishing a game they already sold for full price a few years prior.

then, they found out that people will shell out full price for an unfinished game and regularly buy very finished battle passes.

horse armor started it, but, devs started slipping here in the last decade and they haven't been punished for it one bit. hell, everyone says Battlefield 2042 is complete dogshit, but, sales-wise, it has the second best launch in franchise history.

tl;dr: meme is accurate because gamers let things "slide" a little too long without once thinking to vote with their wallet.

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u/_Bill_Huggins_ Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

I agree. It just showed that they could tear out content that would previously have been included with a 60 dollar game and sell it separately.

And it's now standard operating procedure for many devs.

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u/axisrahl85 Dec 07 '21

It's not the horse or the armor's fault. The fault lies with everyone who bought an ugly ass cosmetic in a single player game. Can you imagine?

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u/maxwillpower Dec 07 '21

Yeah I bought it cause wearing steel armor and riding a horse in steel armor was so epic for my little 14 year old brain.

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u/TheLordofAskReddit Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

I felt so poor and weak back then because of this DLC. Nothings really changed since then

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u/maxwillpower Dec 07 '21

Right there with you but it's okay we will get are real horse armor one of these days.

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u/snowe99 Dec 07 '21

It’s not the horse or the armour’s fault. It’s that damn stupid fish that got curious and ventured into land 300 million years ago.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

Fuck fish.

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u/csgothrowaway Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

The fault lies with everyone who bought an ugly ass cosmetic in a single player game.

The reason DLC and micro-transactions became a massive driver in the industry is because the economics of game development changed. It used to be that developers released a big $60 game, made a few post-release patches, maybe an expansion pack or two, and then moved onto working on the sequel. Nowadays, game developers stay on development for a game longer than they used to. As my namesake may allude, CS:GO is probably one of the biggest examples of this. The salary of developers, the new operations, new patches, new maps, new skins, live events, tournament fees and prize pools, all of it is finances through micro-transactions.

Obviously there are bad actors that "abuse" the system and don't offer comparative value and they absolutely deserve to be skewered for it. And interestingly enough, it hasn't worked out for them. Companies like Ubisoft are not "happy" with a game like Ghost Recon Breakpoint. On the flipside, they are happy with a game like Rainbow Six: Siege, where perhaps one could argue the micro-transaction element has been mutually beneficial to players and the developers. The developers get to keep working on a game they like and bringing new content to it and the players get new content that they actually enjoy. Anyone that played R6: Siege in 2015 and saw it blossom into a really fantastic competitive game, actually has micro-transactions to thank for that. Without the financing of micro-transactions, Ubisoft cant justify financing the salaried employees spending time on the game.

To be ultra, super duper clear. These companies that push really shitty micro-transaction and DLC policies, are generally not happy with the outcome. They practically tanked that Middleearth Shadow of Mordor game. Some companies like Activision and EA really skirt the line, but what all these companies really want, are the games where people are generally happy with the game. Games like Fortnite, Rocket League, CS:GO, LoL, Valoraent, DotA2, Apex Legends, just to name a few. They use this micro-transaction system really well where they are continuing to provide value to players while still making money.

If there's one thing I hope people can take away from "micro-transactions", its that its just a mechanism. Nothing more. Don't waste your breath trying to assign some sort of malicious intention to it. Just like anything, it can be utilized poorly to nobodies benefit, or it can be utilized well, to the benefit of both players and the studio.

Just looking at the top 10 Steam games, most of the popular games we all love and play, are financed by micro-transactions and more importantly, they don't become the games you love without the years of development the studio puts in. People forget that the shelf life of a game was really short back before this micro-transaction era. I often wonder what a game like Titanfall would be like today if it had utilized the micro-transaction model and the developers kept working on the game. And well...I mean its not much we have to imagine because we can just look at Apex Legends as a direct comparison of what could have been for Titanfall.

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u/SomeGuy322 Dec 08 '21

That’s a really good summary of the situation. I think the key for me at least is that there isn’t anything wrong with idea of in-app purchases or MTX but rather the abuse of it. Seems like the loudest people online see an in-game shop and immediately throw a fit regardless of what’s in it.

That’s not to say there aren’t stores out there charging too much for too little content (though this is always down to opinion). But if you were to pick any game with MTX at random you likely wouldn’t know the exact financial situation or business model of the people behind it. As you mentioned, it’s entirely possible that some of the most popular games these past few years wouldn’t have received nearly the amount of patch/upkeep support they got if it wasn’t for the additional revenue provided by these systems.

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u/RobertAPetersen Dec 08 '21

I need not imagine. I was there. I bought the stupid armor day 1. Why? Because I was stupid and wanted cool looking horse on my Xbox 360. Sorry guys, everything since was my bad.

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u/borisonic Dec 07 '21

It's not the horse or the armor's fault. The fault lies with everyone who bought an ugly ass cosmetic in a single player game. Can you imagine?

Here, FTFY

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u/haackedc Dec 07 '21

If cosmetics didn’t matter to people, companies wouldn’t spend millions of dollars making games graphically appealing. We would ALL just be playing 3-D sphere shooters with great mechanics

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u/Captain_Kuhl Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

It's not even just games. People are willing to pay a premium on custom paint/wraps for their cars, limited edition clothing & accessories, color-matched interior decor, etc. Not that it's a problem, but the same concept extends to pretty much every consumer good.

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u/ConsiderationTop5845 Dec 08 '21

We would ALL just be playing 3-D sphere shooters with great mechanics

TBH I'm surprised no one's made a "Perfect physics simulator", featuring a sphereical cow in a vaccuum

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u/swanlevitt Dec 07 '21 Wholesome

Pretty sure we didn't let it slide, it's famous because we all went mental. Thing is, people still bought it 😂

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u/Rendakor Dec 08 '21

Yea I came here to say this. Everyone was outraged, and thats why it was news.

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u/CatProgrammer Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

"Let slide"? I didn't even know about the horse DLC when I first bought Oblivion back in 2005 2006. I just knew it was the sequel to Morrowind and looked cool so I picked it up and planned on playing it once I finished Morrowind. I still haven't finished Morrowind.

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u/CohnJonstantine Dec 07 '21

None of us have, its a foggy mess

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u/Psilopat Dec 07 '21

Then go and use Mge XE and finish the game! The main story isn't really that long if you focus on it

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u/CatProgrammer Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

I'm actually trying out OpenMW at the moment as I've recently wanted a more vanilla experience but with the various quality-of-life improvements that OpenMW provides and ability to take advantage of modern features like multithreading and the like. The distant lands feature there seems to work well too without any need to prebake distant statics but I'm not fond of how the fog looks when that's used and the clipping plane has some issues with the traditional viewpoint distance on widescreen displays even with the usage of radial fog. (Technically the same issues occurred in the original game, made worse with the lack of a radial fog feature, but you didn't notice them as much because the field of view wasn't as wide.) I might add on some graphics mods again at some point to improve the look eventually, though. I do remember using MGE XE previously with shaders that added beautiful god rays and other fancy lighting effects but it also caused my graphics card at the time to overheat and shut down my computer in less than an hour of play, and also I couldn't run at full resolution without the game slowing to a crawl so that wasn't so enjoyable. That was eight years ago, but even with base OpenMW my modern PC struggles a bit with all the settings turned up (shadows, light shaders, water effects, etc.) in residential areas so I'll see how it goes.

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u/Trill_f0x Dec 08 '21

You never finish morrowind.

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u/binaryeye Dec 08 '21

That was eight years ago, but even with base OpenMW my modern PC struggles a bit with all the settings turned up (shadows, light shaders, water effects, etc.) in residential areas so I'll see how it goes.

You might try just running the original game with MCP and MGE XE. I recently installed it on my son's moderate gaming PC, and it never dropped below 90fps. That was essentially vanilla, though, except for MCP, MGE XE (and its shaders), and Intelligent Textures.

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u/idache Dec 07 '21

actually oblivion was a finished product, but i do not know what game was the first to be released unfinished

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u/andrewfenn Dec 07 '21

A lot of complaints at the time were about the fact there was a door in the game that could only be unlocked by the orrery DLC. So although it was a finished product some were upset about what they thought was content taken out of the game to be sold separately as DLC.

You have to remember that although normalized today, elder scrolls players at the time were used to getting able to explore everything in the game or buying massive expansion packs that added more land, not unlocking existing doors in the game with DLC patches. There were news headlines at the time about players being upset that they were wasting hours trying to figure out how to unlock a door only to find it was paywalled DLC.

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u/Javasteam Dec 07 '21

One of Capcom’s Street Fighter games had similar controvery when it was found that a “DLC” character was actually on the disc..

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u/SkyJohn Dec 08 '21

Yeah I think most people have no issue with paying for DLC if it is part of some active continued development of the game.

If they already finished the “dlc” before it was released then they can fuck off with that shit.

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u/ardyndidnothingwrong Dec 07 '21

That kind of dlc particularly rubs me the wrong way. Every single byte you put in my PC should be content I own and have access to, not a glorified ad to buy extra content.

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u/Vhascometo__ PC Dec 07 '21

Probably ET in 1982

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u/versaceblues Dec 07 '21

Okay but tbh Oblivion DLC for the most part was amazing.

I don't even recall this horse being sold separately. I remember buying the Knights of the Nine expansion. Which came with this horse armor, mehrunes razor, and a couple other things.

Knight of the Nine and Mehrunes were amazing content.

Then Shivering Ilse was like the best part of the game

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u/Szoreny Dec 07 '21

This sucker came out before any expansion DLC, sold by itself for somewhere around 3 dollars. I remember staring at it with some puzzlement on Bethesda's website.

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u/Killua_EU Dec 08 '21

Shivering Isles was the best thing in either Oblivion or Skyrim IMO.

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u/Mddcat04 Dec 07 '21

Let slide? People have been making whiny low-effort memes and posts about this DLC for a decade and a half.

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u/onometre Dec 08 '21

I see more people complain about horse armor in 2021 than I see people complain about cyberpunk 2077 in 2021.

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u/Mddcat04 Dec 08 '21

I mean, there was a lot of complaining about that too. I think the horse armor is so well known at this point that it provides a super easy low effort template to fish for upvotes with.

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u/The_Real_Lily Dec 08 '21

Oblivion was not unfinished. DLC =/= unfinished.

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u/Vhascometo__ PC Dec 07 '21

Yeah games were never unfinished or buggy before 2006.

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u/kerred Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

I think the poster was referring to the 100k purchases horse armor made.

The horse armor according to the AllYourHistory documentary was a test by Bethesda for future DLC ideas. Just to see how the marketplace would go and run.

This and Zynga taught every company that you can make a fortune with low effort cheap transactions.

Horse Armor was one of the earlier proofs that such a model was profitable and feasible for non mobile games.

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u/SycoPrime Dec 07 '21

Just want to point out that, I think the horse armor was actually "consumer successful"

While other companies did do similar type cosmetic DLC (mostly thinking of Mafia 2 and others like it), Bethesda took it as understanding where the line was and kept the remainder of DLC for the next several games to content that would have traditionally been expansion disks.


My point being that we did actually successfully vote with our wallets on that one.

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u/T1M0rtal Dec 07 '21

I wonder how many people actually bought the horse armour...

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u/Mylilneedle Dec 07 '21

100k purchases were reported. That’s a lot of straight profit for a low effort product.

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u/T1M0rtal Dec 07 '21

A nice pocket change of $250,000 for one artist to spend a few hours making the armour. I hope they got a bonus at the time...

In fact I want a YouTube channel like People Make Games to find the person who modelled it and ask them how they feel about the ripples made in the games industry from the horse armour.

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u/jfa03 Dec 07 '21

If it wasn’t the horse it would have been something else.

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u/Keinichn Dec 07 '21

Same with the company. If it wasn't Bethesda, it would've been some other large company. It was an eventuality just due to technology making it possible.

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u/StonerDovahkiin PC Dec 07 '21

Not really a few hours. As a modeller myself - I'd say about 24 total. The problem is a bunch of people not responsible for any of the work saw that 250k, not the artist.

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u/kerred Dec 07 '21

The AllYourHistoryAreBelongToUs doc had some crazy number I cant remember but I recall it being well over 100k.

Never underestimate what consumers will buy over the past, well, all of human history since currency was invented.

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u/QueasyDuff Dec 07 '21

I remember when if first came out, there was a huge firestorm of negativity on the internet. Then a week later, on Major Nelson’s blog, he said something along the lines of “I have passed on the feedback from the community about your dislike of horse armor, BUT also, a whole LOT of you bought it anyways.”

I knew then we were screwed for the future. Never thought it would get to where we are now though.

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u/FJopia Dec 07 '21

Well, they weren't called "unfinished", they were just "bad".

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u/GypsyMagic68 Dec 07 '21

We should go back to this. Tired of seeing games that just suck be called “unfinished” as if it’s something that could be hot fixed.

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u/IforgotwhatIwasdoing Dec 07 '21

I don't know how old you are but.. We did NOT let it slide.

The fact that despite the flak they got from this, it was still profitable enough that the trend continued... That tells me there will always be whales willing to pay for anything. The trick is going to be finding a way we can cater to the whales without ruining the experience for the other 95% of players.

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u/RussianTardigrade Dec 07 '21

Trends of incomplete games can be traced to over-promising marketing being repeatedly bought into by consumers and profitable pre-orders in a business which no longer has to deal with physical demand.

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u/SluggishPrey Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

Yeah, that's it. Publishers create expectations, to sell their games, but the more expectation they create, the less freedom the developpers have to complete the game.

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u/dafunkmunk Dec 07 '21

The horse is responsible for bullshit scam overpriced dlc that adds little to nothing to the game. It has nothing to do with unfinished products being released in buggy states.

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u/trotsky187 Dec 08 '21

except nowadays you dont get the horse armor, you get a loot box with a chance at the horse armor!

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u/VellDarksbane Dec 07 '21

I blame Valves lootboxes for the plague we have today, including EAs “sense of accomplishment”. Valve normalized it.

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u/ekolis PC Dec 07 '21

It's funny though, today this would be considered an example of "good" microtransactions, because it's just a cosmetic enhancement that doesn't affect the balance of the game.

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u/EvilTactician Dec 07 '21

Unfinished games were common long before dlc was. You just didn't hear about it as readily or easily as information was less accessible than it is now.

It takes minutes to hours for most of the gaming community to be outraged now, that used to happen via magazines, bulletin boards/forums and word of mouth.

I have vivid memories of games like X-Com Apocalypse which were riddled with unfinished assets and gameplay, cancelled games all over the place and games which were broken you'd never even see a patch for.

Difference is that this is more out in the open now. If anything a much larger percentage of games is actually finished and you at least have some chance that bugs may get patched.

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u/FredFredrickson Dec 08 '21

Did anyone actually feel like Oblivion was incomplete because it didn't include horse armor?

I would argue that online systems like Steam, and the move away from physical media in general, are really why we have "unfinished" games now - because developers can update on a whim and things aren't set in stone when the game goes "gold".

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u/Broly_ PC Dec 07 '21

Trends of incomplete games can be traced to one horse DLC that we let slide…

Is this sarcasm over how people blame the Horse Armor DLC for "starting" microtransactions?

Do people actually believe this?

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u/NoBullet Dec 07 '21

What does this DLC have to do with huge day one patches

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u/xgh0lx Dec 08 '21

Fun fact, Bethesda wanted to put it out for free but it was Microsoft who forced them to charge for it. To keep it the same they charged for it on all platforms.

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u/Aalnius Dec 08 '21

Fun fact we had shitty unfinished games before microtransactions were a thing.

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u/ReadTheFManual Dec 07 '21

Imagine actually believing

1) Oblivion was an "incomplete" game and that Horse Armor, which did literally fucking nothing - had no in game mechanical purpose - was somehow ripped out of the game to sell as a completing chunk or that content that took 8 months to be packaged like Knights of the Nine was somehow left out of the game.

2) That anyone gave the slightest bit of a fuck about some meaningless cosmetic DLC and actually bought it in 2006. Get over yourselves you ridiculous teenagers.

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u/WhereDreamsGoIWander Dec 07 '21

Hey, remember this little game called Minecraft?

Remember how everyone thought the creator was a Greedy McGreedster for selling access to a game still in ALPHA DEVELOPMENT?

Remember how it became one of the most successful independent games to ever be released, bought by a major publisher and still gets updated?

But sure, go ahead and blame horse armor.

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u/EarthDragon2189 Dec 07 '21

How is optional cosmetic DLC responsible for games releasing in a straight-up nonfunctioning state?

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u/wrydrune Dec 07 '21

Nah, we had incomplete games before that. They stayed bad though.

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u/ayyLumao Dec 07 '21

Jesus christ this sub is literally nothing but complaining about unfinished games and pre-ordering now.

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u/MMetalRain Dec 07 '21

So shareware games were just proto free-to-play games :O

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u/janiesplaypen Dec 07 '21

leave him alone he looks sad 😭