r/gaming Dec 08 '21 Silver 4 Helpful 6 Wholesome 6 Take My Energy 1 Wearing is Caring 1

A simpler time

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16.7k Upvotes

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u/king0demons Dec 08 '21 Helpful

Many cartridge based systems had rereleased carts as fixes, mostly unannounced. Certain pokemon games had as many as 4 versions, Super Mario 64 had several revisions released in asia. Generally, though, it was to resolve game breaking issues that were only discovered well after a game was marked as gold.

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u/vindjacka Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

Also Nintendo 64 games (for instance) was ridiculously expensive. Base retail price was 49 USD, adjusted for inflation that's around 88 USD today. Some required extra hardware peripherals, such as the expansion pack (Majora's Mask, Perfect Dark and more).

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u/imightgetdownvoted Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 09 '21

StarFox for SNES was $59USD MSRP on launch in 1992!

That’s $112 adjusted for inflation.

Edit: and mortal kombat was $69USD when it launched around the same time.

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u/Brier_Games Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 09 '21

And people whine about games increasing in price these days.

Edit: Inflation people.$60 today isn't the same as $60 ten years ago.

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u/half3clipse Dec 09 '21

And people whine about games increasing in price these days.

Despite the price, companies make vastly more profit than they did back then, and make gleeful use of DLC and MTX to generate profit other than the initial sale.

Oh and the distribution cost is vastly lower than it used to be: An n64 cart cost $30 to manufacture. That's not the cost of making the game, but the cost of the physical cartridge.

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u/Bwago Dec 09 '21

Came to point that out. The cost of hosting and fees from someone downloading a game is pennies. Making a super robust circuit board with memory and a durable shell and connectors, especially 20 years ago, ain't cheap.

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u/bluurd Dec 09 '21

There are also vastly more people buying games today as gaming isn't seen as just a "nerd" hobby any more.

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u/omnipotentsco Dec 09 '21

Companies paying us sure treat it like it is though…

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u/GatoradeOrPowerade Dec 09 '21

If you look at the base cost of a game and account for inflation it got cheaper, but over the years the industry has found many different ways to monetize games. Methods that may have not been accepted had the cost of a game adjusted for inflation. If you adjust for inflation a game would cost over 100 dollars now, but a game can easily cost you over 100 dollars now. It basically got cheaper and more expensive at the same time.

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u/BOSS-3000 Dec 09 '21

Those downvoting must be the same idiots that thought Burger King's 1/3 pounder was smaller than the 1/4 pounder or the transfans believing inflation is responsible for figures doubling in price over the past decade despite inflation not matching the increase.

Math is not hard people.

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u/mrjamjams66 Dec 09 '21

Disagree. Math is insanely hard.

What the hell is this thing, anyway: +

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u/BallisticButch Dec 09 '21

It means she's pregnant. Mazel tov!

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u/Ek0mst0p Dec 09 '21

A&W had the same issue... everyone said it was better, but 1/3 must be less than 1/4... jaysus....

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u/iniciadomdp Dec 09 '21

A&W’s 1/3 pounder, but the message still gets across

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u/scarsinsideme Dec 09 '21

Not like we make any more money than we did back then

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u/_SWEG_ Dec 09 '21

Wonder why people whine about a supposed need for increasing prices from an industry that breaks records year over year? Or better yet, why it was a niche industry when it was more expensive. Hmmm 🤔

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u/granadesnhorseshoes Dec 09 '21

Hardware. We are talking about physical carts. In the Snes case, the cartridges could contain entire extra processing chips not just game data on ROM. Starfox was famous for its inclusion of the SuperFX chip. You were paying for the hardware as much as the game itself. (most of the time)

Likewise with the N64. How much did a 32Mb thumb drive cost in 2000? The N64 carts were just big read-only thumb drives and had costs to match, even before you factor in the game itself.

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u/Proxy_PlayerHD PC Dec 09 '21

How much did a 32Mb thumb drive cost in 2000? The N64 carts were just big read-only thumb drives and had costs to match

Don't compare Flash Memory (Read/Write) with ROM (Read Only), because ROM is using completely different technology and is therefore much much cheaper than Flash.

even Gameboy and SNES cartridges could reach into the MBs in capacity, as ROM has always been cheaper than any kind of writable storage.

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u/Psykechan Dec 09 '21

Likewise with the N64. How much did a 32Mb thumb drive cost in 2000? The N64 carts were just big read-only thumb drives and had costs to match, even before you factor in the game itself.

That's not really a fair comparison. NAND Flash was much more expensive than regular old Mask ROM when you were making several thousand cartridges.

As a matter of fact, Flash memory was so expensive that while the average size of an N64 cartridge's MROM was 8MB to 12MB ("big" games like the Zeldas and Perfect Dark were 32MB and the really big games like Resident Evil 2 and Conker's BFD were 64MB), the Memory Pak was only 256 kB.

Cartridges had the ability to have Flash mem on them too but a few games even use the older style battery backed SRAM due to how much Flash costed!

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u/The_Mad_Chatter Dec 09 '21

at least with the n64 you only had to pay for it once. Its cool that the SNES allowed for expanded processing, but also silly to think about owning multiple superfx chips that could have just been an expansion slot independent of the game rom

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u/Dlh2079 Dec 09 '21

Some N64 games retailed for upwards of $70.

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u/bakgwailo Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21

Even Genesis. PS4 was $100 in '95. Remember FF6 being like $80 on the SNES.

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u/Dlh2079 Dec 09 '21

Yep. I feel like people who say shit like the op don't remember buying games in the 90s or weren't the person paying for them then.

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u/sineoflife93 Dec 09 '21

I paid $74.99 for Star Wars Shadows of the Empire for the N64 at a U.S Target store. The most expensive game I have ever paid to date even now. I made sure I played that through completion.

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u/NytMuvz Dec 09 '21

For sure! I see people complain about game prices now, but I remember saving all my bday money and allowance to buy FF3 for SNES for $99.99 CAD.

To the original point games shouldn't be as expensive as they are now if they're not complete but regardless they used to be more.

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u/JimmySnuff Dec 09 '21

Very solid look at the subject of game pricing by Raph Koster who as well as actually having worked in the industry, wrote the book A Theory of Fun for Game Design.

https://www.raphkoster.com/2018/01/17/the-cost-of-games/

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u/Musaks Dec 09 '21

thanks for the link, intresting read

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u/Dogamai Dec 09 '21

atleast they dont have monthly subscriptions

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u/Keino_ Dec 08 '21

Same with Arcade cabinet, even Street Fighter 2 has almost a hundred beta versions that we're all playable at an arcade at some point.

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u/Koifish_Coyote Dec 09 '21

One exception was Ocarina of Time, where they accidentally put actual religious imagery and chants in the original version

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u/02d5df8e7f Dec 09 '21

pokemon games had as many as 4 versions

Pokemon was a goddamn scam. Even if you bought all the generation's versions you literally could not catch them all without cheating because there were next to 0 legendaries giveaways outside of Japan. Not to mention all sorts of bullshit like trade-only evolutions, pick-one choices, pure luck-based encounters with absurd low chances of even being able to take a single action... I mean, literally the first choice you make in the game is basically choose 2 Pokemon families you will NEVER be able to catch. And people complain that they cannot experience the full game because it's too difficult. Pokemon was, you can't experience the full game, period.

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u/Anonymous7056 Dec 09 '21

You're supposed to go make a friend.

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u/mrbaryonyx Dec 09 '21

you mean you're supposed to convince your friends to buy the game too

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u/sarduchi Dec 08 '21

To be clear, there were still bugs... you just couldn't do anything about them.

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u/Ozmahunter Dec 08 '21

Yup, which is crazy because as a person that worked in QA for years, it’s hard to express how munch infinitely easier it is to QA a 2D game with such limited input and menu options when compared to a 3D game like the ones we get today. It was a simpler time in more ways than one.

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u/1nd3x Dec 08 '21

WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY POLYGONS RENDER FUNNY AND THERE WAS A TINY HOLE IN THE WALL A PLAYER COULD RUN AT FOR 5MINUTES TO CLIP THROUGH AND BYPASS THIS OTHER MECHANIC!

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u/Free_hugs_for_3fiddy Dec 08 '21

OH BOY, THIS IS A REALLY NIFTY BLUE RUPPEE. I CANT WAIT TO MARVEL AT THIS FOR 17 HOURS. OH WAIT A MINUTE IM SLOWLY SLIDING BECAUSE MY 3D MODEL DOESNT HAVE AN IDLE LOOP THAT IS PROPERLY CLOSED. IM PHASING THROUGH THE WALL OH GOD.

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u/TheSereneMaster Dec 09 '21

No way this could be an exploit in a speedrun

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u/Dman5156 Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2nRW3wKnVYsome speed runs arent meant to be "fast" but more rather a restriction or a challenge. challenge categories are what happens when any % becomes too optimized for the exploits of its time (hollow knight, Super Mario Odyssey, Breath of the wild are all good examples of games that have a wide range of challenge categories, some of which really break the game in interesting ways that arent condusive to beat the game optimally, but skipping other mechanics instead).

edit: actual fun catagories to look at are Low Capture in Mario, Master sword in Breath of the wild and low% in Hollow knight are my personal recomendations.

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u/TheSereneMaster Dec 09 '21

Oh don't worry, I'm well aware of (and am still amazed by) low% speedruns lol

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u/SC_x_Conster Dec 08 '21

A lot more memory constraints which led to...very creative coding to say the least.

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u/Prawn1908 Dec 08 '21

Not just memory, all the hardware was incredibly limited and required incredible levels of optimization pretty much across the board to run.

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u/ifisch Dec 08 '21

Games were also a lot shorter back then. If you give yourself infinite continues, you can beat Earthworm Jim in like 30 minutes.

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u/SuperElucidator Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

Shorter and harder.

The psychology was different, tho. The big Mainstream games today tend to be 3D open worlds that kinda ... they have aspects of the RPGs and adventure games of yesteryear. But it was Mario, Contra, Sonic etc that were selling the most back then ; and they drew on the arcade tradition of 3 Lives + Continues etc.

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u/Jaxad0127 Dec 08 '21

Part of that was to make them last longer, as it new games were rarer and harder to get.

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u/neckos Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 09 '21

Japanese game companies hated the US rental market and would routinely make NES games harder for US release to ensure they couldn't beat the game in a standard rental window.

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u/GottaHaveHand Dec 09 '21

Wow that’s interesting, got a source on that? Would like to read more

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u/epythumia Dec 09 '21

Never heard of the japanese game companies doing that but Disney definitely did for Lion King. https://www.cbr.com/lion-king-brutally-difficult-platformer/#:~:text=Most%20gamers%2C%20whether%20they've,it%20during%20a%20rental%20period.

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u/fvgh12345 Dec 09 '21

Fucking A I got that game for free as a kid because my dad found it on the sidewalk one day(GB Version) and I'm still traumatized by it

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u/maltesemania Dec 09 '21

No wonder it was thrown out.

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u/CajunTurkey Dec 09 '21

Someone got Scarred and Mufasaed the game cart onto the sidewalk?

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u/iceman78772 Dec 09 '21

It's even true of Western games released in Japan, check out what Battletoads did.

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u/Brian_Mulpooney Dec 09 '21

Shorter and harder.

Just like me.

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u/garlicroastedpotato Dec 09 '21

A lot of Nintendo games weren't beaten until they were emulated. There are also a lot of games that were found to be 100% unbeatable even with tool assist.

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u/d64 Dec 09 '21

If anything, on NES the situation was very good, since Nintendo actually had quality controls in place for games they would license for release. On 8 bit computers, where anyone could write and publish a game, bugs, insufficient testing and plain unfinished games were much more common. Say 80s crpgs, there's several games that were sold in boxes for full price that just cannot be completed without some editing of game data or save files.

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u/PTLove Dec 09 '21

Interesting. Is there a list available?

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u/jandrese Dec 09 '21

Battletoads is famously bugged, in two player mode the clinger winger level is bugged and impossible.

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u/KindnessKillshot Dec 09 '21

WAIT WHAT?!?! Oh god I need to apologize to my brother

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u/garlicroastedpotato Dec 09 '21

I don't know if anyone has ever compiled a list of these games because most of them just weren't that popular anyway.

Like I think the game was called Monster Party. You'd beat a boss and then he'd vanish and there's just no way to progress from there, next level doesn't start, there's no way at all to move on. You just have to reset start over and that's just where the game ends.

There are actually some more popular ones that have bugs that are beatable but make the game unbeatable. Like in Mario 3 you can make the level disappear and every time you respawn you just fall to your death.

In the Action 52 cartridge 9 of the games would freeze if you progressed too far (like Ooze).

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u/silver2k5 Dec 08 '21

I beat the original Contra when it re-launched on old Xbox in under 10 minutes without getting hit. By far my hardest earned achievement.

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u/TwoCoresOneThread Dec 08 '21

Games of this era were at best written in C but more often written in assembly, though. Debuggers / IDEs / etc were all also much less sophisticated at the time.

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u/0b0011 Dec 09 '21

That's not really a huge change. Lots if games are written in c++ now days.

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u/TwoCoresOneThread Dec 09 '21

Even C is certainly a big change from something like 65C816 assembly.

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u/LetsPlayLehrer Dec 08 '21

Yes. I had a PS1 game that I couldn't finish because of a bug. Game is called nightmare creatures and in my German version there was a bug that the final boss had infinite health. Found out the hard way years after playing it and I had internet.

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u/Manuels-Kitten Console Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

I know this is kind of in the era of patches but the especific game I will mention didn't get any patches. Tools of Destruction. Found out the hard way that there is a glitch that if you save on a certain level in NG+ it corrupts your save file. Lost a 100+ hour save like that

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u/Fukface_Von_Clwnstik Dec 09 '21

I couldn't beat nightmare creatures cause I suck...thought the game was awesome though

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u/OktoberSunset Dec 09 '21

Just need to watch a few episodes of AVGN and those rose tilted glasses will get knocked off and you will remember all the dogshit broken games we got sold back in the day.

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u/EastYorkButtonmasher Dec 08 '21

Bugs, or top secret speedrunning methods?

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u/Wootai Dec 08 '21

I was looking for someone to bring up speedrunning!

“There were no bugs in games like Super Mario World!”
“Oh? Here check out how this guy gets to the end credits by placing three turtle shells in just the right place”

https://youtu.be/14wqBA5Q1yc

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u/W1mpyDaM00ch Dec 08 '21

Most people couldn't get far enough to encounter issues or if the game was popular enough and issue was big enough the code in later cartridges may have been fixed. There are a few cartridge based games that technically can't be beaten due to bugs.

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u/Orangeflea215 Dec 09 '21

Lego Star Wars original trilogy for the ds

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u/About_to_Snap Dec 08 '21

Nothing like saving allowance and gift money for a year and dropping $90 on a NES game that you basically had just the picture and word of mouth for knowledge on, to finally excitedly throw it in your system and finding out it sucked 😂😮‍💨

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u/iisdmitch Dec 08 '21

The games cost waaaay more though. Street Fighter II for example was $70 in 1992 which is roughly equal to $138 today. Games still had bugs, if you have ever downloaded ROMs they have different revisions of games because of that.

I get the post but gaming pre “always online” wasn’t perfect either.

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u/SnowxSakura Dec 08 '21

Phantasy star IV was $90 back then. I'm very thankful for the prices we have now

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u/iisdmitch Dec 08 '21

I know people were upset that PS games went up to $70, I remember when the PS2/Xbox/Game Cube era games were $50 and shot up to $60 next gen. I know no one wants to pay more for anything but it's been nearly 20 years, it was was going to happen eventually.

Prices now are definitely way better but I also see the argument about the unfinished, shit games at release by AAA companies

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u/dos_user Dec 09 '21

How much do price increases go to the actual working developers and how much goes towards shareholders and CEOs?

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u/TheRealMW Dec 09 '21

not to mention, do the price increases coincide with better games? not really tbh.

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u/FierroGamer PC Dec 09 '21

Development costs are bigger too, if you confront them people will say no, but most of them will absolutely not accept graphics that don't cost millions to develop.

They want AAA, new, expensive to develop, cheap games made with love, but from big corporations and that also don't look for ways to get more money out of them.

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u/Jefoid Dec 08 '21

I think people miss this. Atari games were $45.

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u/RigasTelRuun Dec 08 '21

I remember begging my mom for a New NES game when we visiting the city once. The game it got was Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers. I beat it in Three days and was terrified to say anything about it because of how much it cost.

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u/iisdmitch Dec 09 '21

I loved that game

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u/imightgetdownvoted Dec 08 '21

Yeah but street fighter 2 was worth it.

At least to 8 year old me it was. I fucking loved that game.

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u/Gegejii Dec 08 '21

Also since you are already mention Street Fighter II let's not forget about Super, Turbo, Super Turbo etc. and that you were basically forced to buy the entire game again if you wanted the latest balance changes and content since patches weren't a thing yet so they instead decide to release the whole game again for full price.

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u/Niggel-Thorn Dec 08 '21

Don’t forget if you wanted the updated version of SF2 you would have to shell out another $70 for every unique version

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u/Kinetic_Pen Dec 09 '21

Logic Bomb!

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u/Fatyellowrock Dec 08 '21

Wait... patches are a bad thing now?

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u/ted-Zed Dec 08 '21

Free patches btw.

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u/Dr_Deadmau5 Dec 09 '21

Hey now, don't give them any ideas...

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u/epythumia Dec 09 '21

Patches are almost always a great thing.

What is not great is a game knowingly hitting the market at 75-85% complete, and patching the rest. Honestly, they call them patches but I don't believe we patch craters.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

It's a double edged sword.

Patches for Doom Eternal that launched in a playable state: good thing.

Patched for FO76: technically also good thing but if we lived in a time without easy patching it would likely not have released so broken

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u/Fatyellowrock Dec 08 '21

Good point

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u/Hiveul Dec 08 '21

I think people are mad at mandatory patches that take hours to download, for the most part... Stories about young dads with 3 hours of free time per month are pretty popular around these parts.

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u/grapejuicecheese Dec 09 '21

Consoles can be set to automatically download updates. Oftentimes I'll log on my PS5 and find the patch has already been downloaded and should only take a short while to install.

Most games also have a feature that allows you to play the game once a certain percentage of the game has been downloaded.

Or you can just play something else while waiting for the download.

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u/w__4-Wumbo Dec 08 '21

I appreciate patches but they're insanely annoying

Especially the dreaded "our publisher forced us to release this early so here's a 20 gb patch that fixes all the shit we didn't get time to fix" patch

I want to buy a game, put it in the console and play it

I have bad internet, a 40 gb game is already gonna take me 3 days to download, adding another massive patch on top of that is just a slap in the face

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u/Traiklin Dec 09 '21

Can't forget EA's maybe it was Activisions way of doing it.

The game is shipping in 2 weeks.

It's not done.

It's shipping in 2 weeks

Okay...I guess we will put the demo on the disc and have people download the game as a patch.

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u/TheRealMW Dec 09 '21

Pro Skater 5 was ActiBlizz, you can remember it by the dumb Crash Bandicoot cross promotion earlier this year to tease the new Pro Skater remaster and the fact that both are randomly on Battle.net despite making no sense there.

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u/Ticeben2 Dec 09 '21

This only happens with a handful of very large companies most games don’t have these issues. Another day where I am thankful for primarily playing jrpgs.

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u/GaijinFoot Dec 08 '21

Day one patches? That's basically saying we made this game and it barely works, you'll need to download a huge update if you want it to be good

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u/FierroGamer PC Dec 09 '21

The day one patch is usually being worked on way before the game releases, bureaucracy and stuff.

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u/TheSpoonyCroy Dec 09 '21

Well sort of but not really. The reason for Day 1 patches is primarily due to the concept of "going gold" where you start to print discs out for physical copies. That is a process that takes times so now we live in a time that has easy patching, you can have devs working on fix and have them ready before day 1. Now why are they so large then, well typically that is by design and on how the game is packaged and the technical limitations of hdds. Hopefully with the focus of SSDs, we might see updates that are far smaller because they don't have to care about HDD seek times (basically the time your hard drive takes to get to the location of the data on the tray).

Now with all that rambling done, I would agree games have been going gold way too soon and they try to patch it last second if they can since they know they can easily do it.

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u/alpinesuperstar Dec 08 '21

You can still do this if you want

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u/FierroGamer PC Dec 09 '21

I am surprised how people act like they have no choice but to buy the latest AAA games.

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u/TheGameMaster115 Xbox Dec 09 '21

NOOOO, YOU SEE MODERN GAMING EXISTING PROHIBITS OPS ABILTY TO ENJOY THINGS!!!! /s

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u/TheMansAnArse Dec 08 '21

Nostalgia glasses. As many shit games then as now.

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u/migueeel Dec 09 '21

LJN anyone? 95% of licensed movie games were trash.

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u/AiryGr8 Dec 09 '21

This sub has them on the tightest.

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u/FierroGamer PC Dec 09 '21

Actually I am pretty sure now there's more, there's also substantially more good games because game development is more accessible to creative individuals who make them with love.

And it's also much easier to have a fairly good understanding of whether you're going to like a game or not before buying it, and there's an even wider range of prices.

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u/Musaks Dec 09 '21

nonono, taking average or bad examples from today and comparing them to the most loved classics of the ninetees is completely normal and a reasonable thing

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u/Shenanigamii Dec 08 '21

Now make this with the ET Atari game!

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u/SiriusSadness Dec 08 '21

That feeling when standing there at Wal-Mart just before Christmas as you hear the eerie, beautiful opening music of this game playing softly in the background. Nobody else is present nearby, and finally, it's your turn! The SNES controller looks very inviting. Every other time Mom brought you to Wal-Mart, there was someone else at the machine, but not this time. You're supposed to be buying presents for the relatives but for some reason you're just not very good at thinking about other people yet in life (though you have no idea why). Your brother isn't even here this time, so you finally get to try playing.

You die on level three, of course, because jumping from sinking island to sinking island with spikes glowing and floating by in the water are simply too much to handle for a tiny kid brain. Still, those water effects are beautiful. When you leave, you're left with glowing, warm, colorful memories that will never leave you until you leave this life, as well as a curiosity - what was past the level I couldn't beat? Those first few levels stay as magic in the mind for quite a while until you later have a chance to play the game in full. There is no other experience quite like the joy of play, and the makers of this game knew that profoundly.

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u/jparksup Dec 08 '21

For me it was seeing the demo of pokemon stadium in a Toys R Us. The wonder and amazement. God I would kill for one of those demo stands.

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u/MuteSecurityO Dec 08 '21

(slightly younger than you) i remember having that experience with n64 and goldeneye. thinking to myself wow how realistic the graphics were. couldn't wait to get it for christmas after seeing it in the store like that.

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u/Heiferoni Dec 08 '21

I remember my first time (and only) time trying out a Virtual Boy in person. No one was using it. This was the future right here! My first glimpse into a high tech futuristic window into... the future. I put my face up to it and tried out Wario Tennis or some crap.

Boy did it suck. My eyes hurt, my neck hurt, and looked red and awful. At that moment I lost whatever shred of interest I Had in the device. For some reason, though, it's still a cherished memory.

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u/trevordeal Dec 08 '21

If graphical advancement allowed for Skyrim size and complex games back then but we still had no internet there would be a lot of games completely broken and left destitute.

They however were so simple that the inability to update didn't effect them as much as contemporary games.

People would have gladly paid $20 for more levels in Mario or Zelda. You best believe it.

We remember them fondly BECAUSE they are our past.

Games are the way they are because gamers prefer it or at the very least, are accepting of it in games they prefer. Why do you think FIFA and Fortnite sell billions in microtransactions and why DLC is so popular because people buy them.

I would NEVER buy a microtransaction skin in a game like Fotnite but I would in Rocket League. Everyone has something similar for their preferred games. Some do not buy any or protest it completely, which is good. They are speaking with their wallet and trying to shape the industry they want to see.

ALLLLL that said to say, not everything in modern games is venom. If you vote with your wallet, you help shape the industry.

If you disagree, perfectly fine. Just my thoughts.

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u/jerk_store_manager Dec 08 '21

Why do people act like video games back then were so much better? As stated here multiple times, whatever half you bought was the final product, so if it was super buggy and unplayable then you were out of luck. And there were games that were half finished before being released.

Nothing has changed except now companies have an opportunity to fix bugs after game releases

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u/Dramajunker Dec 08 '21

Gaming as a whole is better nowadays. There may be plenty of scummy practices, but those existed back then as well. Devs put out shitty products to capitalize on the success of other games or movies. Movie tie in games were notorious for being awful.

Back then though we were limited by the lack of information. It still amazes me today how people feel like they're getting scammed after buying a game when you have dozens of reviewers throwing up reviews the day it releases. Sometimes before that. Preview events exist as well. Don't trust reviewers? Then wait for your favorite youtuber to play it. Likely as it releases since thats when they'll get the most views.

Then we only had monthly magazines and word of mouth. That one kid who had a gaming magazine subscription was like the coolest kid on your street.

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u/Solesaver Dec 09 '21

I think the most confusing thing about gaming subculture today is the the sheer outrage at the mere existence of shitty products. Like, bad games exist. Sometimes games look good at first, but then turn out to be bad. Generally my response to the existence of a bad game is to... not buy it. I come into gaming subreddits though and you'd think Ubisoft murdered their mother or something.

People act personally offended that other people would dare to buy microtransactions or pre-order a game that they're excited for. People buy the yearly sports game that is obviously awful because it's the same game as last year... Just let people have their fun IMO. My life is not significantly worse for the existence of bad games.

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u/TheRealMW Dec 09 '21

getting angry at Ubisoft is 100% justifiable, they are a genuinely evil corporation. not for how they treat gamers, but for how they treat their employees. it's, like, blatantly not okay how they act, and I don't think it's cool to use them in this example. they may not murder someone's mother, but they'll absolutely choke women out and then knowingly promote the strangler because he makes the line go up (which actually happened).

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u/713MoCityChron713 Dec 08 '21

Back in the cartridge days devs wouldn't even tweet an apology if they released a bugged game. smdh

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u/GillbergsAdvocate Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21

No patches

No updates

No lootboxes

Because the technology didn't exist yet. But if it did, you bet your ass they'd be in those games.

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u/NeonPatrick Dec 08 '21

Also, I can play Super Mario World on my Switch now plus new games. It's way better now, we have a huge choice.

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u/Syric13 Dec 09 '21

All SNES games cost around the same: 50-80 dollars.

I can buy 10 PC games for the price of 1 SNES game and have 10x as much content, styles of game, type of game, etc.

I love old school games. But this is a bad take. And if you found a game breaking bug, guess what, you can't fix it. You can't do anything about it. You are stuck with that bug.

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u/Salzberger Dec 09 '21

I guess they're technically right. It was indeed a simpler time. For better or worse. As much as I loved my childhood playing Secret Agent, Duke Nukem and a few others on repeat, I'd have sold my soul for today's gaming landscape.

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u/Rightinthepiehole Dec 08 '21

Do the new Switch Mario games need internet updates? Or are they essentially ready to go with the cart?

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u/notjosemanuel Dec 08 '21

Ready to go with the cart. It probably has a few minor patches since it added a new mode after release, but the game was good since day 1, just like most single player games nowadays. But r/gaming literally only knows CoD, Battlefield and "indie games"

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u/peakzorro Dec 08 '21

Except for Mario Maker 2, which needs internet to get levels to play, but that's the good type of internet connection.

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u/notjosemanuel Dec 08 '21

Mario maker 2 also has a single player mode with pre-made levels which is a pretty great 2d mario experience, not worth $60 tho we paid $60 to play thousands of levels

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u/Rightinthepiehole Dec 08 '21

Nintendo has a pretty consistent quality for their single player by the sound of it. Just played Super Mario 3 on NES today and it's still worth playing.

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u/okaytran Dec 09 '21

wait, I like patches and updates...

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u/RolandIce Dec 09 '21

An un-patchable $50 game in '93. Equivalent to about $95 in today's money.

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u/nef36 Dec 09 '21

no updates

They're not always fun, but that's a net negative

Especially since you still got them in revisions that costed full price even if you already owned the game

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u/deadinthefuture Dec 08 '21

Just buy a game and play. Wait, take the game out again. Blow in it, stick it back in, and play.

Nope. Take the game out again, blow in it, sigh into it, stick in back in and…. Pray.

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u/Spectre627 Dec 09 '21

What's this? You wanted to play Tekken Tag Tournament?

Well now, we'll have you know this game is a BlueDisc -- good fucking luck ever getting it to work.

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u/JLConawayII Dec 08 '21

And if something was wrong with it, there was no way to fix it. For consoles at least, PC games have been getting updates and patches for decades. Most of the games were pretty solid though, I can't remember playing a SNES game with any major problems.

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u/xynix_ie Dec 08 '21

An SNES game might have 200,000-300,000 lines of code where a brand new game would be well into the millions, 3+ million lines of code.

A game I made in the 90s was around 100,000 lines of code.

So pre-release debugging for the EveryPerson was a much shorter process. In playtesting you could often determine the root cause pretty fast on limited modules.

The operating systems and hardware were much more basic and writing to the OS was easier, debugging memory issues was easier.

It's a different world. A 2021 car vs a 1995 car. Lots more code.

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u/pipboy_warrior Dec 08 '21

I think it also really makes a difference how small the teams are. Take Doom, that was programmed by only two people: John Carmack and John Romero. When they found a bug, it was either "Oh, I did that, what was I thinking" or "Hey John, your dumbass caused this, fix it." It's much easier to debug code that you yourself wrote.

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u/xynix_ie Dec 08 '21

Smaller code bases allowed for great commenting. It was just much smaller so irrelevant comments would be seen while looking at other stuff. When that irrelevant comment you saw two weeks ago suddenly became relevant you remembered exactly where it was near because you saw it while fixing that other stuff.

Solo work and small teams could easily function in this, especially since in my world it was maybe 15 .CPPs and some of them may only have 1k line of code in it.

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u/Synrai Dec 08 '21

I do vaguely remember SNES games getting updates. Of course not to the cartridge you already own but they would update the games for major issues you could tell by which revision of the cartridge you had. At least I remember shopping for certain revisions and I think that was why.

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u/notjosemanuel Dec 08 '21

You seriously sneaked lootboxes right next to two good things huh

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u/hyteck9 Dec 08 '21

I just finished Metroid Dread on Switch. No season pass. No micro transactions. Just sit down and jump in. I rather enjoyed it, and feel myself steering back to 1 player games to avoid the clutter of e-upsells.

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u/ProfessorMarth Dec 08 '21

Meanwhile I'm playing Tales of Arise, a completely single-player RPG, and every time I'm in camp a marquee pops up at the bottom telling me to buy DLC lol

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u/Ulsterman24 Dec 08 '21

I want my Sega Master System II back.

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u/Dlh2079 Dec 09 '21

If that game was broken it's broken forever, want to play more too bad that's all ya get, oh and first party games for the N64 were still regularly 50 and 60 dollars.

Yes it was simpler as far as the payment goes, but the games were also monumentally more simpler, less involved, cheaper to make, and just flat out smaller.

Let's stop pretending this is remotely a 1 to 1 comparison.

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u/danivus Dec 09 '21

We only remember the 1% that were good though. At least a shit game these days might be patched good eventually.

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u/TorriK0 Dec 09 '21

“No patches”

Yeah instead of patches, you just had to buy another version Street Fighter II. The SNES had World Warrior, Hyper Fighting, and Super SF2 The New Challengers, all of which had to be purchased separately and expensive as hell.

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u/mrdougwright Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21

Fuck all these comments. I get you. And yes I was born in 81 and no I’m not a boomer.

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u/WookieDavid Dec 08 '21

Not gonna lie, this has some boomer energy

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u/zxc123zxc123 Dec 09 '21

Yep. Saw this and thought. Was the person making this trying to sound like a 30yr old boomer on purpose?

PSK

Opens a monster energy zero

Sips

"No patches, loots, or updates. Back in my day you just blew on it and then jammed it in. Now that's a REAL GAME."

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u/Musaks Dec 09 '21

like a 30yr old boomer

lol ^^

you kids are hilarious in this comment chain

boomers would wish they could be thirty again

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u/D3dshotCalamity Dec 09 '21

I mean the people who grew up playing this are in their 40s so not far off.

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u/SixFootJockey Dec 09 '21

Millenials (born between 81-96) grew up playing this.

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u/SeansModernLife Dec 08 '21

I still own an SNES. I wanted to throw in Battlefield 1 the other day and I was greeted with a 1 hr download time to play a campaign level. Literally just threw in my Donkey Kong Country cartridge

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u/thelieswetell Dec 08 '21

I was confused as how BF1 was on SNES for a moment.

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u/SeansModernLife Dec 09 '21

It was Battlefield #1, Super Battlefield

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u/Shepherdsfavestore Dec 09 '21

SNES average game size: 2MB

Battlefield 1 game size: 50GB

Not comparable.

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u/Bill2theE Dec 08 '21

Posts like this are so stupid. Patches and updates are a good thing. Sometimes it gets abused and some games release unfinished, but, overall, these are still really good things. And, while I don't buy a ton of games at launch, basically every game I've played in the past 5 years has been finished. The only one that felt exceptionally buggy and unpolished is Skyrim.

The last 10 games I've played:

  1. Nioh2 : Finished game. Has some DLC. No Lootboxes
  2. Hitman 1/2/3: Finished game(s) with QoL improvements, some DLC, and also a lot of free content from the publisher
  3. Spider-Man: Miles Morales: Finished game with QoL improvements and free content from the publisher
  4. Outer Words: Basically finished but a bit short overall. Some DLC
  5. Control: Finished game. Some DLC that I eventually got for free thanks to PS Plus
  6. Persona 5: Finished game that has had tons of DLC and spin-offs. Never got any of the DLC. Still got over 150 hours out of the game
  7. FFVII: Finished Intro of a full game. Free extra chapter with a PS5 upgrade
  8. RDR2: A couple bugs including one that has halted me from 100% which annoys me, but that's just me not getting a fake trophy. Has still had a lot of patches. Tried playing the online and didn't like it. Liked GTA online more.
  9. I'm tired of thinking of examples and know I've missed a ton of games I've played in the past few years. None of them felt unfinished or laden with lootboxes or microtransactions.

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u/Puzzled_Fish_2077 Dec 09 '21
  1. No Mans Sky. The Game was trash on launch. Got good 4 years later adding almost all the features that they promised and more

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u/TwoCoresOneThread Dec 08 '21

A lot of older games had serious bugs that never got fixed because they couldn't be patched. It wasn't a good thing.

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u/Mrreeburrito88 Dec 09 '21

Yeah and No man’s sky would be a steaming pile a shit like it was when it first came out. I think I’ll keep updates.

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u/LiveLoveLife521 Dec 08 '21

And if a game came out buggy then oof. And weren’t games like $80 back then as well? How much is that with inflation?

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u/Sarcosmonaut Dec 08 '21

Man, the whole “No Patches” thing cuts both ways haha

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Puzzleheaded_Fall494 Dec 08 '21

Until you put in a game and it didnt work and there was no way to make it work...

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u/deathby1000bahabara Dec 08 '21

And if there was a problem with it fuck you

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u/Injustry Dec 08 '21

Go ahead and wait in the midnight line for the latest Halo. I’ll download it.

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u/K2LU533 Dec 08 '21

It’s all well and good until you come across a game breaking bug. I remember I had one of the Indiana Jones games on PC and there was a bug which meant you couldn’t change the angle when you were swinging on a rope, which made the game unable to be progressed. I had to wait two years for my parents to get internet before I could patch it and complete it 😅

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u/ToyDingo Dec 08 '21

Wait wait wait...

What's wrong with patches and updates?

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u/Magnetic_dud Dec 08 '21

Except that many times the box art presented a totally different game and then you were scammed out of $60 if you didn't buy the game magazines with reviews

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u/Kokirochi Dec 08 '21

lets be fair, while a lot of games were great, lets not look at it with rose tinted glasses.

Snes games were around $50 on release in 1990, adjusted for inflation that is $105.8 today. Those games were waaaay shorter, just for comparison lets look at 2 games from same franchise then and now.

The legend of zelda: A link to the past on the SNES, according to howlongtobeat.com, takes an average of 15h to complete the main story, going up to 17h-ish to do a completionist run of everything in the game.

The Legend of zelda: Breath of the Wild on Switch takes an average of 50h 22m just to do the main story, which goes up to 100h to do the main story and extras, and if you go for a completionist run with all the collectibles, it goes to 191h in average to beat, and that is $60. and that is without adding the DLC, which by itselft takes 14h to complete, putting it at almost the same length as the average Link to the Past playthrough.

So for about half the price you get between 3-11 times more content + DLC if you want. And any gamebreaking bugs can just be patched out if you want and more content can be added.

Other examples,

Super Mario World

  • Main story: 5h 14m
  • Completionist: 10h 18m

Super Mario Odyssey

  • Main story: 13h 5m
  • Completionist: 63h 33m

And again, Super Mario World was way more expensive when adjusted to inflation, so games now are a consistently way better bang for your buck than they used to be

And that is without even going into F2P games where you get entire game experiences that can last you years and years of gameplay with constantly added new content and balancing patches, new game modes, events, etc. all for free. Me and my friends have literal thousands of hours in games like Dota 2, Counter Strike Go, League of Legends, etc. with multiple constant updates and patches a year to keep the game balanced all while adding new content, for FREE. Hell, I used to feel guilty that I "wasted" money on skins on league of legends at some point, then I realized that I had spent about $0.2 an hour on an experience I really enjoyed, its amazing, I can't even watch a movie that cheap.

Gaming is amazing right now and young me would have loved to have access to this when I was younger. I love my childhood games, but to pretend we have it bad now is just disingenuous or misinformed

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u/silver2k5 Dec 08 '21

They could also design, code, and make the art assets in under a month sometimes with a whopping 5 people working on the project.

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u/happyfatman021 Xbox Dec 08 '21

And if the game had a game-breaking bug, you were S.O.L.

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u/BCProgramming Dec 08 '21

This is just a zoomed in few of a larger "issue" IMO.

patches, lootboxes, and updates weren't a thing on the SNES simply because there really was no "online play". (disregarding some addons that sort of kinda did a sorta somewhat communication thing).

For a time, when Internet connectivity wasn't completely ubiquitous yet, for PC games, you could sometimes download game patches from the developer website, which you'd install after installing the disc.

Once Internet connectivity became ubiquitous, it became possible for games to install patches automatically.

Ideally, this would lead to the games getting new content, new features, and gameplay changes after they were released. However, what has largely happened is that because that capability exists, getting the "RTM" release correct is less of a priority in terms of project management, so that gets deemphasized. And there is always the question of whether DLC Content made available for the game could have been part of the original release but was cut to sell as another product.

That has rather spread throughout the software industry. It's no longer necessary to deliver a finished product at release, because everybody has an internet connection and you can just make a patch.

Now, some might think this means standards have slipped. But, let's be honest here: The only reason cartridge-based games had some stringent quality assurance wasn't because they developers had so much say in the process and demanded that they only deliver high quality software, it was simply because if there were serious problems with the software on the cartridges they could easily have to scrap the whole lot (at great expense) or if it's only discovered after it's in retail they might even have to compensate buyers or provide a fixed copy to all purchasers, also at great expense. Now, They delivered a game with bugs? no problem, we'll just deliver a day one patch to the game.

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u/Derwinx PC Dec 08 '21

But the prices, damn, some of them put modern games to shame. I thought $190 for a complete new game was bad, but Earthbound will run you a whole $240

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u/Strokeslahoma Dec 08 '21

But Super Mario World did have updates - the Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World version having updated Luigi sprites and more save options.

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u/SuperdaveOZY Dec 08 '21

90s parents hated these and still do. Their complaint was how the original NES could not do what the SNES could. Complained that they had to buy their kids a brand new system.

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u/Garrwolfdog Dec 08 '21

Its not that the software didn't need patching it just wasn't ablento be patched.

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u/kamruk Dec 08 '21

Ah yes, I remember the days of buying a version of a game that could not be beaten cause it had a game breaking bug at the 40% mark.

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u/MatsThyWit Dec 08 '21

You know. For 1 - 10 hours of total play time for 60 dollars and no additional content...ever. Cause it's all the same thing, clearly. /S.

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u/Kinglyre Dec 08 '21

Anyone claiming these games were flawless clearly never played them lots of nes or snes games were either broken or barely playable. And guess what! You couldn't ever fix them.

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u/SuperSaiyan2589 Dec 09 '21

This was gaming in its infancy. As gaming has matured, as with everything generally, it has been taken over by those willing and able to abuse it.

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u/da-di Dec 09 '21

Such a controversial take. You're so brave

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u/sirfannypack Dec 09 '21

No updates was not a good thing.

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u/StevynTheHero Dec 09 '21

People in this thread are acting like bugged games were completely rampant and problematic.

As one who lived through the era, I can say that either they were saying some pretty sketch games, or they simply weren't alive during the time to know how good it was.

Most games worked fine. No game is without bugs, but they didn't hamper your gameplay. did you did run into a bug, it was triggered completely on accident and on a rare occasion. And 99% of the time, it was completely inconsequential.

Even one of the most popular, but really bugged games: Pokemon Red/Blue, remains popular and playable. Its a testament to how inconsequential these "Games were bugged forever" games really were.

But you know what you can't do today? You can't re-experience your childhood games. Because patches and updates changes everything permanently.

Is that a HUGE problem? No, not really. You can still play the game and it's more or less what you remember. But saying it's different and ruins your childhood is a really over-dramatic way of saying how things are now.

Stop being over-dramatic about the past. Games worked fine, and it was nice not having to worry about paying more later to get the "complete" experience via DLC or microtransactions.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '21

golden age

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u/Recon1392 Dec 09 '21

They best part. When you buy the game, it is a complete , finished game that you own.

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u/Horghor Dec 09 '21

And no online singleplayer

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u/RandomStoic6380 Dec 09 '21

sweet jesus yes

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u/Stooovie Dec 09 '21

Oh yeah, the mythical time of $79 games cobbled together in a fortnight with 30 minutes of content and tons of unpatchable bugs! Jesus Christ the incessant nostalgia everywhere needs to go.

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u/acidrain69 Dec 08 '21

No signing up and signing in. No 5 minutes of studio advertising at the beginning.

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u/moodRubicund Dec 08 '21

You mean when the game was designed to be outlandishly difficult specifically because they expected to you to keep renting the game over and over?

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u/MegaSpuds Dec 08 '21

When the gaming community stops buying loot boxes or seasons passes… maybe the gaming industry will go back to these times/sales tactics. Problem is people keep throwing $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at games so why would game makers not want to sell loot boxes?

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u/steegsa Dec 08 '21

Games are much better now. I wouldn’t go back.

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u/Wild_Contribution940 Dec 09 '21

The story maybe not that good but the graphics is excellent.

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u/Daddy616 Dec 08 '21

Also fuck loading

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u/weareeverywhereee Dec 08 '21

It is really amazing to me as games have gotten bigger and more complex, I am tending to turn back in time. This is partly because of the lessened time I have to game but recently have fired up the PS5 to play some returnal or kill some zombies in COD only to turn it off, go back to my switch, and play donkey kong country 2 or sonic or some shit.

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u/HiImTheNewGuyGuy Dec 08 '21

Paid $72.99 for Final Fantasy II in January of 1992. That's like paying $150 for a game today.